vcas and folders still no go?

Did anyone ever figure out a way to do vcas and nested folders or is the problem of fader moves being multiplied by two still the issue? Thanks. I've been building a house!

Bump please

You can control folder children with a VCA track, but it can't BE the folder parent track, else the fader gain is applied twice. --Be a nice addition if the parent fader gain could be unhooked or "un-applied" :) -Be nice if there was an inverted VCA mode to work against or compensate the folder parent gain, too. ;) Until then, use folders for group processing, VCAs for control... ...and if you have a particular control requirement, ask and I'll see if I can work it out for you. >

Thanks. I'll just make a root level folder VCAs and put the vca tracks there and then control them from there. I think having VoxLead and VoxBG under a Vox folder should be able to control the corresponding folders (without problems) as long as the vca tracks are completely seperate yes? Devs never added the option for parent track faders and automation to control sends did they?

So if I wanted to change folder levels without changing FX relationships every buss/subgroup would also need a VCA master ? Seems clunky, but I still haven't gotten my head around VCA's.

I'm lost again. If i have Vox folder, and nested inside are VoxLead and VoxBG folders with tracks in those two with fx and sends on the child tracks inside VoxLead and VoxBG PLUS fx on folder tracks, how would vcas be setup? I cant give folders for vcas.

You can't "nest" VCAs at present, so you would have to map out the folder hierarchy in flat-form. Top VCA goes to all child tracks, bottom ones to only their level. You need me to knock-up an example? >

An example would be very helpful if you don't mind. Thanks in advance !

Here's the VCA workaround for "folder output gains linked with child FX sends" that Magicbuss asked about, for the nested folders example above. Vox MarT, VL MarT and VB MarT are "marshalling tracks" that take the sends from the child tracks in the folders. VL child tracks send to VL MarT and VB child tracks send to VB MarT. The folder parents control the gain of these marshalling tracks via VCAs and they then send them on (post fade) to the Vox MarT which is in turn controlled by the Vox parent via VCA, sending on (post-fade, again) to the FX track. The marshalling tracks don't have "Master send" (M) switched on so the sends don't contribute directly to the mix. Simple VCA control, and only the marshalling tracks needed as extras for the FX balance. If you had more sends in each folder, you could use different track channels on the marshalling tracks rather than more tracks, with "channelled" sends taking care to separate the signals and the destinations. Edit: Marshalling tracks allow FX send control from folders to FX tracks without affecting sends to those FX tracks from elsewhere. You just need a send marshalling track for each folder branch end that sends to FX tracks. >

I'm with MagicBuss and need bus compressors to keep working properly and not get starved from child tracks being reduced in volume but it just seems the 2nd example is a real pita with having to manage channel routing for each send. I have to look at this more but I'm currently thinking VCAs are not going to make me happy atm. Further, any chosen method needs to be easy to add tracks while tracking live. If I need to add a new track it should not take more than 5 seconds and we be ready to go with whatever routing is needed to fit in this paradigm. Your diagram is great and I totally get it, but it doesn't mean I know how to implement it to not get double gains and to have vca folder parent level control. I appreciate your examples and time as they help a lot. I remember when James HE was all over this and then disappeared. It's funny how our lives push us in and out of music. I was trying to do vcas last year, then hit by a tornado, built a new house and now i'm back where i was last April !! Still trying.